Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world

Romans 12:2 (ESV) "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is–his good, pleasing and perfect will."

On another rather contentious (at first at least) thread, there were two questions asked. One, about the principle of reflecting the world to evangelize it in the name of Christ. Second, about how do we test our faith in God.Herein is God's answer.Any thoughts, insights or such would be welcomed.

Be blessed, be loved and be at peace,

This was posted on the Single Christian Network Community Forums

Here is some interesting Dialogue found on the Single Christian Network Forums about gifts.

My comments in Red.

Quote from: SALTNLITE on Yesterday at 10:24:07 PM

Quote from: KNGDOMPASSION on Yesterday at 12:23:18 PM

I do not see that this implies that Jesus was never taught. It could simply mean that Jesus was not taught by sect that ran the temple. The Levi's were not in charge of the temple since the people who ran the temple were not Levites since the time of the Maccabean revolt.

The Jews were a close community and reading was not taught in general society; that's why scribes were needed. I'm sure that if a carpenter knew how to read, that in itself would be striking and word would get around.
That is not true, read Dueteronomy, it was required of children to learn the law of God, well male children, meaning they had to read and write, as they were also requied to write it down. Scribes, well they were a special group of men who copied the torah's for the synagogues as well as having special authority to cut some one of from the temple or synagogue. That is the concept behind, having the power to bind and loose.

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To say that Jesus knew it all because He was God, misses the whole point of the incarnation which was about Him laying aside His God abilities, but lived as Adam did before the fall.

But Jesus did know everything, and He did have all godly powers. He predicted His death long beforehand. He knew which disciple had gone to betray Him. He could heal all illnesses, and multiply food to feed thousands. He could change water into wine even though, as He stated, His time had not come yet. He knew all the thoughts of the Jewish leaders. He knew in the Garden how He was going to die, and He asked His Father not to have to go through it.

Matthew 26:52 But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? 54 How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?”

So we see He knew He could call upon all the Angels to free Him physically, but He knew He had to fulfill the Scriptures. How did He know this if, like God, He was not omniscient?

He knew His Father, and He knew His mission was not political deliverence, how did He know this by the power of the Holy Spirit. He was not omniscient in the flesh just as He was not Omnipotent, and Omnipresent.

Yes, He did experience everything we do: that was one of the points of the incarnation. We can say Our God understands everything we go through, because He has gone through it. Jesus knew what it was like to be tempted. We can't say He doesn't understand what we're going through, or how we feel. He walked as a human. He knew hunger, thirst, pain, betrayal, disloyalty, being lied about, everything that brings us down.
If He had no Godly abilities, how could He walk on water or calm the storm? Could Adam control the weather? Jesus brought up fish into a net so that the nets began to split, even after a fruitless night. He brought people back from the dead! I'd say His godly abilities were pretty intact.

[size=12pt]He knew the same we we can know, by the Holy Spirit who indwelt Him as He does us. We don't know what Adam could do before the indwelling God left him, yet Adam would not have needed to do what Jesus had to do because Jesus had to act in a world that manifested the sin of Adam. Why do you think He said, and greater works than these shall you do, that does not imply we have Godly powers, but it does mean that we can operate by having the same Holy Spirit dwelling in us, equipping us, and working through us, just as He did with Jesus.[/size]

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Simply taking one verse does not prove anything.

And yet there is no scripture that refutes it. Every verse is in the Bible for a reason: God wanted it there.

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There were many other ways one could learn rather than going to one Rabbinical School or other.

Again, it was not something that was taught to just anybody.
That is simply not true

Jesus' family had no clout and probably little money.

[size=12pt]What do you think the gifts of Gold Frankinsence and Myrh were for. There is a tradition that says these gifts were the inheritance from Daniel, and handed down to wise men who stewarded it for him, until the Messiah came, and they were obviously taught to look out for the sign.
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And Jesus was busy learning carpentry from Joseph until He began His ministry. You have just contradicted yourself, if He had God knowledge to read and know the word, why did He know need to learn to be a carpenter, after all He could have shown Joseph a thing or two.

If it was common to read, no one would have commented on it. The Jews may have known Jesus did not study under a rabbi, but if everybody or anybody could read, they wouldn't be surprised at His skill.
That is an assumption that does not satnd up to the facts.
It was simply an arrogrant and prideful statement in its context. After all the pride an arrogance of the Rabbi's and Pharrisee's and Saducees, come on, Jesus was address them all the time showing how they were so prideful and arrogant. Do you think their trying to trap Him was not pride showing.


Salt'nLight

Quote from: SALTNLITE on June 04, 2009, 06:07:32 PM

Hi all,

I looked it up too.

John 7:14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.

15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

KJV

Our God knows everything. He was the Word before He became Christ. He invented all languages; how could He not know them? It's such a wonder and such a beautiful thought, and to me underscores the fact that He, Jesus, was God. When I pray to Him in English, He understands; when others are praying to Him, even simultaneously, in multiple other languages, He understands them too. Doesn't it sound right? Those Jews could have gotten together and made a secret code to encrypt the scriptures and Jesus would have read the words as easily as I read my morning paper.

Salt 'nLite